John Mesko: (00:30)
Welcome back to The People of Soil Health Podcast. It's always a pleasure to talk with a member of the Soil Health Partnership team, and today is no different. I'm joined by John Stewart, our SHP field manager covering parts of Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky. And he's going to be sharing a little bit about a new project he's been working on in 2020. John, thanks for making time to talk with me today.
John Stewart: (00:56)
Yeah, thank you for having me, John. And looking forward to talking a little bit about our work in Kentucky.
John Mesko: (01:01)
Well, and before we get into that, I do want to acknowledge that we are both Purdue grads and we have had an opportunity – both of us – to work in agriculture in Indiana. And I know that that's a big part of your background. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about how you got to Soil Health Partnership and your work in soil health?
John Stewart: (01:22)
Sure. I'd be happy to. So my background: I grew up in East Central Indiana, near Muncie, Indiana on a small family farm. I still help my parents farm there today, raising corn, soybeans and some alfalfa hay for a small Angus cattle herd they have. So yeah, growing up, I had just a love for being outside and a love for agriculture with growing up that way. So decided to pursue my education in agriculture. So I have a bachelor's in agricultural economics from Purdue University and later, after a couple post-grad work positions, decided to go back to school to Iowa State and get my master’s in agronomy. As far as my work experience and what led me here, most of my work experience has been crop research focused. So I've worked for a couple of different seed companies doing different testing of agronomic type management systems and also like seed breeding and research for that. And I also have a little bit of work experience working for a crop consulting company that was actually in Kentucky, too.
John Stewart: (02:28)
As far as what led me into soil health, kind of that combination of love for farming and the outdoors and my work experience in crop research. Soil Health Partnership and this role combined a lot of that crop research background, that work experience I had, and also just the love of mother nature and the outdoors. So it was really exciting to me to kind of be able to combine those two things and work on conservation practices and research that help farmers in that realm.
John Mesko: (02:57)
Oh, that's great. It's a very common theme that I hear from a lot of folks that we end up interviewing on this podcast, the interest in soil health and interest in agriculture, supporting farmers, looking for ways to do good. And I think that's one of the things that makes our work really special is, we get to work with a lot of folks that have a like-minded approach. And you work with several SHP growers in different states. I was hoping that today we could look closely at this work that you're doing in Kentucky, one of our newer state partnerships. So tell me kind of how that got started and what it looks like from a bird's eye view.
John Stewart: (03:39)
Sure. Yeah, like I said, I'm a field manager and I do work in several states. Indiana, and a little bit in Ohio and Kentucky. So today we're going to talk a little bit about an NRCS Conservation Innovation Grant that we received to work in the state of Kentucky. So with that, our efforts are primarily in partnership with the Kentucky State NRCS, as well as The Nature Conservancy. So working with some of their representatives in the state to kick off the program, we also have state support from the Kentucky Corn Growers Association and another organization, Precision Conservation Management. So it's a great group of partners, it's been great to work with them and kick off our work down there so far.
John Stewart: (04:21)
So part of the Conservation Innovation Grant, or CIG grant as it's often referred to, it provides funding for four Soil Health Partnership on-farm research trials. So we've been able to expand our research network down there. These are our first four in the state of Kentucky, and these are going to be located in, or they are located in a couple of different watersheds. So two of them will be in the Salt River watershed near Owensboro, Kentucky, and then we'll have another two ... Oh, sorry. That's located near Bardstown, Kentucky. And then the other two are in the lower Green River watershed near Owensboro. So these SHP trials, in general, we're looking at conservation practices on the farm. We'll document a lot of data and what's happening over time to look at soil health and economics.
John Stewart: (05:06)
So these trials here, we're going to really try ... Through working with our partners to kick the program off. We're really trying to focus on the “innovation” in the Conservation Innovation Grant. So trying to do things a little bit different than what a lot of farmers may be doing with their cover crops.
John Mesko: (05:21)
Well, I know that, from several other projects that we're working on, when we talk about Conservation Innovation Grants from NRCS, the innovation part is something that is really important. They're looking for ways to bring about new ideas and new approaches in conservation. So tell us a little bit about kind of the innovation of this project.
John Stewart: (05:44)
Sure. So yeah, really focused in on the innovation side, we wanted to take a look at cover crop seeding methods that might be a little bit different than what a lot of farmers are doing, like I mentioned. So we really wanted to focus on ways to get cover crops seeded and established successfully, but also do it in a manner where we're saving some time and money for the farmer. So a few of these trials are going to be looking at seeding cover crops with a cover crop seeder unit, that's actually mounted on the combine. And along with that, we're trying to experiment with some seeding rates and mixes, species mixes, they're at a little bit lower rate and some smaller seeded species. In these trials that are using the combine seeder, it's tough for farmers to slow down and stop and refill. So the thought there is with the smaller seeding mixes and a little bit lower rates, maybe they can get a few more acres per fill up, also keep seed costs economical. So it's pretty interesting stuff. We're pretty excited to take a look at.
John Mesko: (06:43)
So tell me what are the different crops that you're using in this trial that you say you're talking about using a smaller seeded cover crop?
John Stewart: (06:55)
The crop rotation for the cash crops is going to be primarily corn and soybean rotations, as far as species of cover crops, we're looking at doing some comparisons with some crimson clover type seeds, pretty small, some canola that's very tiny seed. And then also mixing that with some rye grass species, both versus cereal rye and annual rye. So each farmer is different with their goals and we try to be still somewhat flexible in the protocol to make sure it's something that fits in with our system. One of the farmers has a focus of a good amount of biomass for livestock grazing. And some of the others are more looking at more on like the erosion side, getting a cover crop established pretty quickly to help with those types of things.
John Mesko: (07:39)
Well, this is really interesting. The whole idea of planting a crop with the combine is pretty exciting, but I'm also guessing that it's a little bit of a mind bender in terms of the equipment needed. And like you were starting to mention earlier about having to stop and refill the seed and so forth. How are the farmers that we're working with adopting or adapting to this new approach?
John Stewart: (08:10)
It's not an entirely new concept to seed your cover crops with a combine-mount seeder, but most of them are attached to the combine head, so this is a little bit unique. Through some funding and the grant, we have the opportunity to help farmers with some equipment purchases. So these seeder boxes will actually be mounted on the combine body itself versus the head. So the theory there is less time switching over crop to crop. Like in a wet harvest, a lot of times it's pretty tough to get in and get your beans cut. So you may want to switch over to corn. Like I said, the thought here is to have some flexibility to do that. So all of these farmers have not used a seeder box on their combine before, so it's new to them and so they've had to adapt.
John Stewart: (08:55)
But yeah, so it was pretty neat. The seeder box will have tubes that run under the head and it actually is ... So it'll be spreading the seed out underneath the head as it's cutting the cash crop out in the field. So that seed’s getting to the ground, the hope and the thought is it will get better seed to soil contact. And then when the combine passes over the chaff coming out of the back of the combine will kind of cover up the seed and provide a little bit of a mulching insulation. So it's kind of a neat process to see.
John Mesko: (09:26)
So help me understand this because I have not seen this seeding box. So the box that contains the seed is mounted to the combine frame itself, correct?
John Stewart: (09:35)
Yes. So it will be mounted somewhere in this ... The company we found that's making them, they're pretty flexible in how it can be mounted. Every combine is different. So some are mounted next to the cab. Some could be mounted onto the back. So basically they're a hydraulically driven unit; you can calibrate it for your seed species or mix, and then it'll have tubes that run under the combine up under the head. So still trying to have some flexibility to make sure it can work for many types of combines.
John Mesko: (10:04)
The tubes that run up to the head, it doesn't matter whether it's a soybean head or a corn head, those tubes can be adapted to fit on either of those, correct?
John Stewart: (10:13)
Yeah. So basically, the seed will be blown through the tube and then it'll hit a deflector plate depending on how wide your grain table is, or your corn head. It might determine how many tubes you have and how far it's going to spread out. But yeah, basically it hits that deflector, it spreads the seed out onto the ground nice and soft. The only thing, if you're switching between crops, the only thing you really might have to change is, switching your tubes over, or I know some people have a different set of tubes on the other head, and then you just have to reattach them.
John Mesko: (10:45)
Talk about the chaff that's covering the seed. Obviously there's more chaff generally in a corn crop coming out the back of a combine than there is in a soybean crop and modern combines do a better job of spreading that out. But there still is some variability in how that chaff gets spread. How's that handled or is there any special concerns about that?
John Stewart: (11:09)
Well ideally, you'd have a good stock chopper and spreader on your combine to get it even ... Chop that residue up, so you're not having really large pieces covering the ground, so chop it up into fine pieces, so it's going to spread out pretty evenly. But this is our first year in the test, so we're also pretty new to seeing it this way. So looking forward to seeing our results, will that mulching effect help with germination and help with possibly some overwintering kind of as an insulation or is it really going to inhibit that cover crop from coming up and maybe drilled and broadcasted cover crop will look better. It's all part of the test and part of the observations we're going to be making over the next couple of years.
John Mesko: (11:49)
Well, I know you don't have, really, information, a whole lot probably on how that cover crop is getting started, but what kinds of things did you hear from growers with regard to the seeding? How did it go this fall?
John Stewart: (12:03)
Yeah, so I've heard good results. We've had two growers that have been able to ... That got enrolled in time and got their seeder unit mounted and calibrated in time. So they were able to plant a cover crop seed that way. I actually went down there last week and got to see one of the fields, seeing some really good results. So he had a mix on one side of the field that he seeded with the combine. It was a pretty low rate of annual ryegrass, and I think canola and some crimson clover. So seeded with the combine in a corn field, and then on the other side he broadcast, I think, 60 pounds of a mix. And it was very interesting, already the results.
John Stewart: (12:45)
So he broadcasted that the day after harvest. So comparing the two sides, the combine side actually germinated much nicer. It was much greener, much higher population of cover crop seeds were up and going versus that broadcast side with a rate of seed that was, I think, over three times as much pounds per acre. So some early indications there are, it's effective in at least getting that cover crop to germinate and grow and get up out of the ground.
John Mesko: (13:13)
Now, was this that you are describing that you saw the two sides where one was planted by the combine the other was broadcast the next day? Was this over corn stubble or bean stubble?
John Stewart: (13:25)
This was over corn stalks.
John Mesko: (13:28)
So I wonder, this idea of getting the seed down prior to the chaff is probably really important. I mean, at least in this one example. Sounds like it was important in getting that cover crop established.
John Stewart: (13:40)
Yeah, definitely. So if you think of versus just a broadcast, which a lot of farmers will broadcast their cover crop seed, maybe along with their fertilizer, their dry fertilizer in the fall, or just with the fertilizer rig, if they have it. Sometimes you have to use what you have. So we compared this one to that method of seeding and it had some really good results with a much lower seeding rate versus that, so pretty exciting. So another farmer in that area, he is going to be doing a little bit different tests next year. And then one other grower over near Bardstown, he sent me some pictures and he's had some really good germination and results. He's doing a species comparison. So trying to look at some different species out there and see which might work a little better than others with the combine-mounted seeder.
John Mesko: (14:24)
That's really interesting because one of the things ... Okay, we're talking about Kentucky, I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and a lot of things that I run into in talking with farmers in the Northern Corn Belt is we don't have enough time after harvest to get a cover crop established. And certainly that may be true in some cases, but planting it with the combine, not only does it save a trip across the field, it makes sure that the seed is out there just as early as possible.
John Stewart: (14:54)
Yes. It's definitely an advantage on time and labor. So a lot of farmers buy their cover crop seed and have a great goal of getting harvest done earlier and being able to get out there and drill it in or broadcast it in or maybe apply it with a VT tool, but farmers and a lot of people understand how tight timing is in the fall and that window closes very rapidly. I live in Central Indiana now and the last couple of falls before this one, there was hardly any type of window to get out there after harvest and do anything. It was just too cold and you'd be wasting your money on that cover crop seed cost. So I think this is really cool, it could be a really great opportunity for farmers to get that cover crop out there and a method that is going to save them time and money and save a pass across the field.
John Mesko: (15:42)
Yeah, this is really exciting. Now I've got a question though. You said that you worked with a European manufacturer to get this equipment. Is that an indication that this kind of thing is more common in Europe? Tell me a little bit about the connection there.
John Stewart: (15:56)
Yeah, so this company, they're pretty big in Europe. I don't know a whole lot about them other than what I've learned through talking with their sales manager and looking at their website. But, yeah, they're pretty new to the US and they've been signing up dealers very fast, and I think they're going to be a pretty big player in the cover crop seeding industry here. So I think it's pretty common over there and it must have been successful for them to be expanding more globally. The farmers so far, the two that have used the combine seeder, have been pretty happy with how easy they are to set up and the support for the company. So definitely looking forward to seeing more of that here.
John Mesko: (16:32)
I know that all of our field managers are doing a lot of work to collect data. And I'm curious, on these sites in particular, what kinds of data will you be collecting in the fall, in the spring, through the growing season and so forth?
John Stewart: (16:49)
We have a few pillars of our program. One, working with farmers and helping them, be an avenue for them to test different methods like this, but really to support those efforts. We really want to put data behind what we're seeing in the field and changes over time so that you have a leg to stand on versus just maybe saying, "Oh, that cover crop looked great, I guess it was okay." So some of the data we're collecting. A big part of our program is collecting soil sample data. So starting this coming spring of ‘21, we'll be taking soil tests from all four of the fields in Kentucky. That'll involve routine nutrient testing. So your macronutrients, your micronutrients, pH, organic matter, those types of things.
John Stewart: (17:31)
But also, something really neat about the program is our soil health tests that we do on the test fields. So health tests will give us data back on indicators, such as, like, water infiltration, carbon levels in the soil, stability of soil aggregates, organic matter and microbial indexes. And what's really neat about our on-farm research trials is, they're longer term. So we want to track these changes over time, changes in soil don't happen overnight, so soils were built over tens of thousands of years. So that's very interesting, but we're also collecting data in a couple of other ways. One of those being field checks. I'm a field manager and like the other field managers we have on the team, we have a passion for collecting agronomic information in the field. So with these field checks, we're observing the field trial, so the control and treatments out in the field, depending on what test is out there. But basically looking at how, in this instance, will be documenting how cover crops are establishing.
John Stewart: (18:31)
So looking at things like height of the cover crop, population, if it’s emerged and growing, if it's a mix, what species came up, and what numbers as part of that population, then documenting that. So we document that in the fall, how it's coming up, look at it again in the early spring. And then look at things like, how to terminate, when the farmer wanted to terminate it. What's the effects of that cover crop on the cash crop growth and development the next year. So basically it's trying to put numbers and agronomic data to these conservation systems out in the field. So we have more to talk about, more to show what's going on.
John Stewart: (19:09)
Then along with that, we also collect a lot of economic data. So we want to collect that to be able to analyze, not just the agronomic side of what's going on in the field, but also how it's affecting farmer's bottom lines. So as part of the economic data we collect, we'll collect like management data, geospatial yield data, and then also, all the input costs from the different systems farmers put out there. And then that provides us the opportunity to really see if: have they gained money, have they lost money? So I'm pretty interested to see that economic data over time for these fields. We are saving some money, hopefully on those seed costs then by also saving that pass across the field. It's pretty interesting stuff to collect there. And then we'll put all that together and be able to show what we're seeing.
John Mesko: (19:52)
Well, that's really exciting. And one of the things that strikes me about your work there in Kentucky, and some of the other things that you've done there. As a professional with quite a bit of experience with farmers and different practices in different geographies, I'm guessing, and I'm not going to ... I don't want to pin you down on anything here, but I'm guessing you've got some opinions or some, some ideas, maybe a hypothesis about how these things will play out. Whether it's a cover crop seeding with a combine or some of the things that you're doing with other growers and other areas. I'm curious what you see coming on the horizon in terms of what we're learning and what our farmers are experiencing out there with different technologies or different types of practices. What do you think is coming in the near future, say three to five years in terms of cover crop adoption or reduced tillage practices? What do you think is the hopeful thing out there for farmers that are looking to learn more about soil health practices?
John Stewart: (21:01)
I definitely don't think the role of conservation on the farm is going to diminish any time in the future. It's only going to be more important. I'm really excited to be studying these types of things and to take a look at our data over time. One thing I'm really interested in and it's becoming a bigger and bigger topic in agriculture is the soil microbiome and what types of effects it can have on nutrients. I think we're going to see some really exciting stuff on how to manage cover crops to really bolster your soil microbes and what those microbes can actually do to help reduce nutrients over time. There's some pretty progressive farmers here and there that have been very successful with different cover crop species and have actually been able to reduce some of their reliance on fertilizers.
John Stewart: (21:50)
I'm really excited to see data like that, but also we just want to help all types of farmers. Some farmers aren't as advanced in cover crops. I get excited to just see all types of farmers be able to have some avenues to try to experiment with things and get some help to see what's happening in their fields. So I'm just really excited to see the result of our trials and see farmers get excited about these kinds of things and help them improve their farm and these efforts.
John Mesko: (22:19)
Yeah, that's great. And I agree with you and I appreciate the work that you're doing, John there, and with the Soil Health Partnership. I enjoy working with you and hearing from you, some of the things that you're learning out there. I think this whole issue around reducing the number of passes on the field, both from a cost and a time savings is a potential game changer for agriculture. And so I'm really excited that you're working on this and looking forward to hearing more results as we learn them in the future.
John Stewart: (22:52)
Yeah, me too. These farmers, I really appreciate working with them and their willingness to experiment. They're very interested in testing these systems and they believe in it. So I'm excited to be able to put some data together and observations and be able to put some reports together that can highlight some of their efforts, pretty exciting stuff.
John Mesko: (23:12)
Fantastic. Well, thank you again, John. Appreciate your time today and I hope things go well for you with this trial this fall and next spring as well.
John Stewart: (23:22)
Okay, thank you. It was great talking to you, John.
